That turned dark quickly. Instead of having an actual choice in what we do, we have become a sort of cogs in a machine that we have no ability to control. It is designed to work in a specific direction. It requires that the laws and regulations be rewritten in the direction of efficiency. - The regulations and, you know, we’re at a point, in California, where the only state regulators of water that is the State Water Control Board. They have always been controlled by the political process, of the State, from water rights, to conservation. That’s all just been a rubber stamp. And they’ve had no teeth, they’ve been toothless, under the control of political appointees, appointed by elected people. The idea that the public can be a part of these policies is just absolutely ridiculous. And so what they're doing is, they’re looking at, you know, the salmon, in California and Washington state, and so on. And they’re saying well, we need to find more of these fish, we need to bring the flows up, because we need them to swim up the rivers and so on. - One thing I always think about is that it took maybe a hundred years, for them to establish one type of technology that the whole society was built on over those one hundred years, and it took maybe one hundred years for the whole society to realize that they needed to change. So I have a concern that we’re not thinking about that kind of time-scales here. - Yeah, we’re not. We need to create a generation of people who will have it in them to not be bought off by the money that’s being thrown at them. Not being swayed by short-term interests, their careers, and the like. Not having greed to be the deciding factor, and not having a willingness to destroy the planet for a job, or for the pursuit of wealth. There’s so many people that just do not have the kind of moral consciousness, that would be necessary, to be a part of some of this radical change that we’re talking about. I mean, let’s just hope that that person will come along, because there is this whole population of people. It’s like you were saying, they’re already being born right now, with the potential. But if they just don’t get the proper encouragement, because nobody is doing it. And this is sort of the irony. It is so easy. Just to get people to do things, that are healthy, and things that are reproductive of the health of society. They don’t have to be the most complicated things, they could be, simple things. But what we’ve had in the last few decades, since Reagan’s election, is not just a generation of people who are unable to understand the world, but the creation of a generation of people who don’t want to understand it, either. That’s what we have to fight against. We have to get people to see the world as it is, and not as they want it to be. And the way you do that, is when people are being told there’s nothing to worry about. And it’s the old thing. The only thing the ruling class has to fear, is a working class that they can’t exploit, anymore. Because, if the working class isn’t being exploited anymore, then the system, is in danger. Then the system is in trouble. This is the biggest, big bad bogeyman. The most powerful of all time. - But as an aside, I think it’s fascinating, because, you know, I do teach, you know, that’s one of the topics that I teach, in some of my college classes, because it’s so important. But, if you ask your average worker, well, okay, we understand that, we understand that, you know, in economics, the market is supposed to be self-regulating, and it’s not, it doesn’t work. And I think, you know, as we’re learning more and more about that, you know, it becomes more apparent, to people who are not economists, or who aren’t getting their economics from the evening news or something, that the market is broken. And I think that we’re on the cusp of understanding that, you know, that the market is really not doing what it needs to do, and it’s become a sort of a tool of big business, and of corporations, and, you know, if there’s one thing that I’m trying to get people to understand is that when you read economic theories, and all that stuff, and you don’t really understand how they can be true. But then, when you look at the market, I mean, you just look at it, and there’s a, I mean, people that are making, a lot of money, there are no constraints on the amount of money they can make. But that’s just insane. You know? So, I think, the more, we can get people to just have, you know, understanding of the system that they’re in, so it’s harder for people who are politically more in power to keep doing what they’re doing. But there are structural things that we have to deal with, and that’s, that’s the biggest problem. - And it’s the same with the media, and the media is the tool. If we don’t teach young people how to think critically, and to not let other people shape their ideas of the world, then we are doomed. - Yeah. And I think that, you know, I’ve always been more of a teacher-type person. Even before I got into radio, I was, I was a teacher, I taught English. And it’s just one of those things, where you get up in the morning, and you walk to work. And you know, nobody, there’s nobody else in the office with you. I mean, you walk into the building, and there’s just, you know, nobody else, and you’re by yourself. You’re in the bathroom, you’re in the kitchen, you’re in the hallways, you’re in the, all you’ve got is yourself. You’re not surrounded by, you know, people that you can really bounce your ideas off of. And, I think, especially if people don’t understand what they’re talking about, and they come up with a thesis, and they don’t question it, and they’re really sure about what they’re saying, and you know, what they’re passing off as truth. Then, to see that happening through the media, or in the scientific community, or anything that I can think of, it’s really frustrating. Because, if you’re not a real well-rounded person, that can see the world with their own eyes, and not just accept what they’re being told by the media, or the people around them, then you’re basically just stuck, you’re just going to stay there, where you’re going to stay stagnant, you’re just going to stay the same. And, I mean, you’ve got to question, why are people just accepting things? Why are people just accepting things, as a society? And, I mean, this is the great power of the internet, is that it’s given voice to a lot of people. - It’s changed things, just, in ways, the speed of which those things can be, you know, in the space of one year, you know, something could be, like, on the table, for a debate, and then something else could be, well, on the side of the road as a fossil, in a year’