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A Few Good Reasons Not To Use The “A” Word - daniel-cussen http://m.guardian.co.uk/stage/story/0,,2132458,00.html ====== shard I read all three of the linked articles about this article, and it's quite interesting. Of course, the conclusions have been drawn to suit each article, but I think that the reasons for giving the "A" word for this article are sound. ------ DanielBMarkham I love this article. The problem with this is that it's just like saying "you don't use cuss words in polite company because it's impolite to swear" and forgetting that saying "cuss words" in polite company would mean everybody cussing. Everybody would simply be using the words for something other than swearing. Same problem here -- with "A" and "I" as the terms, the issue is not A or I, it's what's between the A and I. People who are looking to get laid will be using it as a mating signal. I'd imagine that people who are looking for a relationship would want to signal something else. Both sides might be doing it for a number of reasons, some of them having nothing to do with lust and love. I don't know enough about the mating market to say that this article is right or wrong. And I hope I'm not being pedantic. I'm just pointing out that once again, the language we use is very complex and much more nuanced than it seems. I think people should try really hard to understand and discuss this issue. It might not be as black and white as people would like it to be. It might be as gray as anything else. ------ edw519 Nice article but this line is troubling: "While it's very likely that a 'bitch' or a 'pussy' would have a negative meaning, I still question that the same is true of 'fuck'." "This makes a lot of sense: to me, 'fuck' indicates an action. To have a conversation in which one person takes out their dick and puts it in your wife or girlfriend is certainly different than having a conversation with another person that involves putting your dick in their wife or girlfriend. The first is a proposition, the second is an act." This is exactly why I stopped reading. He used the "I" word to begin with. It's just that the people he's discussing (not me) have been brainwashed into treating it as though there was an "I" in there. This just reinforces that mindset. How about instead he explain that when people say "fuck" to one another, it's often the word of frustration or the word of rejection. "My point is that I think it's important to consider context a bit more and understand the true meaning and intent of "I", "A", and "F". I do not have the intention to offend those that are into those sorts of things. It's just not for me." So, if he's so careful about it, he can find the intent of anyone at any time and can find some sort of reason for anything. So what? I think there's some truth here but it's probably not the entire truth. How about this. In a business setting, you may well choose to take a firm stance and to tell it like it is. But if you spend all your time there, you're going to be looking to get laid sooner or later. And it sounds like he has. And you know what happens to the best laid plans. So you end up trying to talk about one thing while thinking of another. That's life. And if he convinces some people that he's not talking about them (or their activities) when he says "I", then he's wrong. By the way, how does an alpha male figure out that you're not talking about "you" when you say "I"? It's right there in the article. ~~~ jcl Perhaps you missed the part where the author says: "Personally, I'd really rather use the word 'penis' to describe the male anatomy." I find it strange that he would say that, given that most people treat using the term "penis" in public to mean "male genitalia" as a fairly strong rejection of the male anatomy (as well as a display of rudeness). Perhaps he realizes that some people find even more offense in the word "dick", and finds it more acceptable to make the word a term of endearment. ~~~ edw519 "I'd really rather use the word 'penis' to describe the male anatomy." That should have tipped me off. ~~~ jcl I guess we differ in our comfort level of reading between the lines... the quote I interpreted to be saying "I think the word 'penis' is actually a nice way of saying 'male genitalia'" -- which I do not find unusual, but do not consider polite. ~~~ DaniFong Hmmmm....I certainly don't find it unusual or offensive at all. In fact, when I saw it, I laughed. (But, you know, it really depends on context.) ------ zkinion People use what I call "social lubricant" words to gain leverage in social situations. Think about the word "man." It doesn't mean one thing to one person, it means something else to someone else. In high school it was about the most offensive word you could use for the boys. Once they matured it became a social lubricant to gain leverage in social situations. That is not to say that everyone uses the word in that way, but that word has evolved into meaning something else now. Likewise, the word "F" is just as likely to be used by someone to gain leverage as anyone else, though for a lot of people, it does mean sex. "I" is just as likely to be used to mean "my" or "self" as any other word, but that word has evolved as well. In the end, it depends on the people doing the talking. To expect the individuals reading your article to speak the same language is not entirely rational. ------ amichail Does "I" simply refer to myself? As in, does "I" simply refer to an object/person who is a part of the speaker? Or does it refer to a _process_ that constitutes my perception, thought, and intention? ~~~ daniel-cussen Yes. "I" refers to an object/person who is a part of the speaker. ~~~ amichail But does "I" refer to an object/person who is a part of the speaker in any of those terms? Or only in the first case? ~~~ daniel-cussen I think it refers to an object/person who is a part of the speaker in all of those cases. ~~~ amichail That's what I would like to hear you explain. ------ daniel-cussen I think that this article is missing the point. When people say "I," they are most likely referring to themselves; this meaning is not usually offensive. Likewise, when they say "A," they're referring to the process of thinking and sensing, which is most likely not offensive. This usage of "I" and "A" shouldn't be considered bad or bad taste, I don't think; I think people are just trying to rationalize bad taste. But there's also a third usage of the words. I guess that's the problem with words: they don't always mean exactly what they appear to mean, and I don't think it's ever good to get too rigid about what certain words should mean. The problem with "A" is that the word is used with an aggressive meaning, as in saying you're an "ass" or an "asshole." The problem with "I" is that it makes a joke of people's feelings and thoughts. Anyway, I think it's not such a bad thing that you're saying what you're saying, even if I personally disagree with some of it. It's good to question your values, so go ahead and question them, whatever they may be. You might even discover that people have actually thought of what you said and thought it was wrong; I mean, since you said it, people must have considered what it is you're saying and thought about it. I think it's very likely that people who question the "I" and "A" stuff know about them but consider them wrong ways of thinking. ~~~ anamax > But there's also a third usage of the words. I guess that's the problem with > words: they don't always mean exactly what they appear to mean, and I don't > think it